Fanatec Direct Drive

13

Comments

  • It's not that you wouldn't mainly use that DD-wheel on PC. But there is many many ppl who also have consoles, PS4 and XOne, with that powerful gaming pc. And this huge amount of ppl around the world need "all in one" wheel. 

    It's important to have wheel/base which you can use on all platforms, especially when it's bolted to racing seat(you don't want to install/uninstall it all the time). i don't any problem, actually it's just natural for me, to first drive some ie iRacing, rF2, AutoM or AC on pc side and after that want to drive some Forza etc in XOne's side, or something on PS4. 

    And when talking about price, DD-wheel will be high price-item in itself already, if there would be some 100-200€ more to price from console compablity, it would totally ok. It's no brainer.
    What people are forgetting is that Fanatec doesn't have any problem producing a all-in-one base. It's the console manufacturers that have the problem with this approach. The debate/issue should be taken to them directly. Complaining here that PS and Xbox compatibility should always be included doesn't really accomplish anything. I'm guessing Thomas has already spoken to Sony about the DD base to be able to say PS compatibly won't be included. That's a Sony decision.
  • Thank you for saying that clearly enough for the most incoherent to understand. And it's on top page. Soo now. We can get on with the matter at hand yeah.
  • Sony is the big problom!!!
  • Let's not give up the hope about a multi platform DD. Sometimes it takes just a little bit of time. And sometimes things come sooner than expected. ;)
  • Let's not give up the hope about a multi platform DD. Sometimes it takes just a little bit of time. And sometimes things come sooner than expected. ;)
    Oi oi..... nudge,nudge  <:-P
  • edited July 2017
    I was Going to Skip DD but if its Multi Platform Take My $$$!!! Im Ready and waiting for the Day its announced!!!
  • I was Going to Skip DD but if its Multi Platform Take My $$$!!! Im Ready and waiting for the Day its announced!!!
    Lorrell, Iam just intrested as to why you would of skipped the DD wheel if it wouldnt be a multi-platform.(not saying that it will be)
    Reason I ask this is because you had the V2 and then moved onto the V2.5 knowing that at some time the DD wheel would of come out.
    Is it because most V1's in any hardware product are a testing for consumers .... ??
  • edited July 2017
    I was Going to Skip DD but if its Multi Platform Take My $$$!!! Im Ready and waiting for the Day its announced!!!
    Lorrell, Iam just intrested as to why you would of skipped the DD wheel if it wouldnt be a multi-platform.(not saying that it will be)
    Reason I ask this is because you had the V2 and then moved onto the V2.5 knowing that at some time the DD wheel would of come out.
    Is it because most V1's in any hardware product are a testing for consumers .... ??
    Not at all The v2 is a Really Good wheel --->  the v2.5 is a Great wheel -->> I have had My v2 since 2014 when it first launched and its still Going Strong!!!  but when i read that the v2.5 has a 1000Htz  refresh rate -VS-  the v2 @500Htz refresh rate i decided it was time to upgrade--> Note: i did some research before i placed My order and noticed that DD wheels have 1000Htz refresh rate also So IMO at this point the Big difference is only that the v2.5 is Belt drive and Not a pure DD.

     With Sim Racing Games FFB physics evolving/ becoming more advanced and able to deliver more detailed FFB a wheel with 1000Htz Refresh rate will allow you to feel more --->  We are at the point that games are Starting to Demand a wheel with a Higher Refresh rate for best Performance and Maximum Subtle FFB feel ---> I focus on Subtle FFB Feel more because the stronger FFB forces will be felt anyway but its the subtle FFB Feel Tire Scrub, Loss of grip that define the stronger FFB forces like Weight transfer to let you know whats going on with the car/ when to push  vs when to back off.

    Why i would have skipped the DD wheel -->I understand that a DD wheel will or is Supposed have certain advantages over a belt Drive wheel but the v2.5 FFB feel and Accuracy is soooo Good that i feel if Fanatec Never mentioned a DD wheel  i don't think i would be missing anything at this point and time because Sim Racing Game Physics have Not yet reached the level that Demands a DD wheel for best Feel and Performance. IMO No matter what wheel you have It can only be as good as the Game physics and Game FFB feel allow it to be <-- Pcars is a great example of this. --> for me a DD Multi platform wheel is the only way to Evolve my set up if a CSW PS4 Compatible Rim is Not Possible--> I have the XB1 Hub and Forza Rim and I would Even be willing to buy a Premium PS4 Rim to make the V2.5 compatible Even though this makes no sense because since i went PC i have No desire or intent to race on console except those days when I miss racing with the Old PS4 crew.

    Because the v2.5 is 1000Htz and DD wheels are 1000Htz the only clear Advantage i see that DD wheels have is in Total Power but that's Ok i cant even race with the V2 or the V2.5 at 100% FFB power.

    I think the Fanatec DD wheel will be a game Changer for sure and will set a new industry wide DD wheel bench mark!!!
  • edited July 2017
    I think the Fanatec DD wheel will be a game Changer for sure and will set a new industry wide DD wheel bench mark!!!
    I would bet on that! And I start saving my money already. Because recently I've spent all my savings...

    image

  • Maybe for the DD range, the shifter could have a motor from the Clubsport v3 pedals to simulate a crunch when not using clutch while shifting? I don't know if this can be achieved but would be awesome to see this implemented in the new shifter.
  • Maybe for the DD range, the shifter could have a motor from the Clubsport v3 pedals to simulate a crunch when not using clutch while shifting? I don't know if this can be achieved but would be awesome to see this implemented in the new shifter.
    That would be very cool
  • Lots of great suggestions articulated here. What I think is important as others have said is to strike the right balance between adjustability and complexity. Not everyone is going to want the most powerful torque that Popeye can handle, however I think everyone would, most importantly, want the flexibility to be able to choose, adjust, maximize, and not lose fidelity regardless of the overall torque strength selected. The other aspect that would be game changing would be a force feedback braking system or other technology that can enhance the perception of braking beyond the visual and audio currently available? Surely technology may have evolved enough that there are new opportunities to simulate the realities of braking that are easily differentiated, measureable, reproducible and driver exploitable? I look forward to being amazed! Cheers
  • I was Going to Skip DD but if its Multi Platform Take My $$$!!! Im Ready and waiting for the Day its announced!!!
    Lorrell, Iam just intrested as to why you would of skipped the DD wheel if it wouldnt be a multi-platform.(not saying that it will be)
    Reason I ask this is because you had the V2 and then moved onto the V2.5 knowing that at some time the DD wheel would of come out.
    Is it because most V1's in any hardware product are a testing for consumers .... ??
    Not at all The v2 is a Really Good wheel --->  the v2.5 is a Great wheel -->> I have had My v2 since 2014 when it first launched and its still Going Strong!!!  but when i read that the v2.5 has a 1000Htz  refresh rate -VS-  the v2 @500Htz refresh rate i decided it was time to upgrade--> Note: i did some research before i placed My order and noticed that DD wheels have 1000Htz refresh rate also So IMO at this point the Big difference is only that the v2.5 is Belt drive and Not a pure DD.

     With Sim Racing Games FFB physics evolving/ becoming more advanced and able to deliver more detailed FFB a wheel with 1000Htz Refresh rate will allow you to feel more --->  We are at the point that games are Starting to Demand a wheel with a Higher Refresh rate for best Performance and Maximum Subtle FFB feel ---> I focus on Subtle FFB Feel more because the stronger FFB forces will be felt anyway but its the subtle FFB Feel Tire Scrub, Loss of grip that define the stronger FFB forces like Weight transfer to let you know whats going on with the car/ when to push  vs when to back off.

    Why i would have skipped the DD wheel -->I understand that a DD wheel will or is Supposed have certain advantages over a belt Drive wheel but the v2.5 FFB feel and Accuracy is soooo Good that i feel if Fanatec Never mentioned a DD wheel  i don't think i would be missing anything at this point and time because Sim Racing Game Physics have Not yet reached the level that Demands a DD wheel for best Feel and Performance. IMO No matter what wheel you have It can only be as good as the Game physics and Game FFB feel allow it to be <-- Pcars is a great example of this. --> for me a DD Multi platform wheel is the only way to Evolve my set up if a CSW PS4 Compatible Rim is Not Possible--> I have the XB1 Hub and Forza Rim and I would Even be willing to buy a Premium PS4 Rim to make the V2.5 compatible Even though this makes no sense because since i went PC i have No desire or intent to race on console except those days when I miss racing with the Old PS4 crew.

    Because the v2.5 is 1000Htz and DD wheels are 1000Htz the only clear Advantage i see that DD wheels have is in Total Power but that's Ok i cant even race with the V2 or the V2.5 at 100% FFB power.

    I think the Fanatec DD wheel will be a game Changer for sure and will set a new industry wide DD wheel bench mark!!!
    I knew you had a valid reason and Iam glad that i asked, as I was unaware that the DD wheel would of been 1000htz refresh rate.
    Do you or anyone else know if the three different versions of the Fanatec DD wheels will have this refresh rate, or will the top tier DD wheel be a lil more; Tommy ??
  • edited July 2017
    I was Going to Skip DD but if its Multi Platform Take My $$$!!! Im Ready and waiting for the Day its announced!!!
    Lorrell, Iam just intrested as to why you would of skipped the DD wheel if it wouldnt be a multi-platform.(not saying that it will be)
    Reason I ask this is because you had the V2 and then moved onto the V2.5 knowing that at some time the DD wheel would of come out.
    Is it because most V1's in any hardware product are a testing for consumers .... ??
    Not at all The v2 is a Really Good wheel --->  the v2.5 is a Great wheel -->> I have had My v2 since 2014 when it first launched and its still Going Strong!!!  but when i read that the v2.5 has a 1000Htz  refresh rate -VS-  the v2 @500Htz refresh rate i decided it was time to upgrade--> Note: i did some research before i placed My order and noticed that DD wheels have 1000Htz refresh rate also So IMO at this point the Big difference is only that the v2.5 is Belt drive and Not a pure DD.

     With Sim Racing Games FFB physics evolving/ becoming more advanced and able to deliver more detailed FFB a wheel with 1000Htz Refresh rate will allow you to feel more --->  We are at the point that games are Starting to Demand a wheel with a Higher Refresh rate for best Performance and Maximum Subtle FFB feel ---> I focus on Subtle FFB Feel more because the stronger FFB forces will be felt anyway but its the subtle FFB Feel Tire Scrub, Loss of grip that define the stronger FFB forces like Weight transfer to let you know whats going on with the car/ when to push  vs when to back off.

    Why i would have skipped the DD wheel -->I understand that a DD wheel will or is Supposed have certain advantages over a belt Drive wheel but the v2.5 FFB feel and Accuracy is soooo Good that i feel if Fanatec Never mentioned a DD wheel  i don't think i would be missing anything at this point and time because Sim Racing Game Physics have Not yet reached the level that Demands a DD wheel for best Feel and Performance. IMO No matter what wheel you have It can only be as good as the Game physics and Game FFB feel allow it to be <-- Pcars is a great example of this. --> for me a DD Multi platform wheel is the only way to Evolve my set up if a CSW PS4 Compatible Rim is Not Possible--> I have the XB1 Hub and Forza Rim and I would Even be willing to buy a Premium PS4 Rim to make the V2.5 compatible Even though this makes no sense because since i went PC i have No desire or intent to race on console except those days when I miss racing with the Old PS4 crew.

    Because the v2.5 is 1000Htz and DD wheels are 1000Htz the only clear Advantage i see that DD wheels have is in Total Power but that's Ok i cant even race with the V2 or the V2.5 at 100% FFB power.

    I think the Fanatec DD wheel will be a game Changer for sure and will set a new industry wide DD wheel bench mark!!!
    I knew you had a valid reason and Iam glad that i asked, as I was unaware that the DD wheel would of been 1000htz refresh rate.
    Do you or anyone else know if the three different versions of the Fanatec DD wheels will have this refresh rate, or will the top tier DD wheel be a lil more; Tommy ??

    Current on the market DD Wheels Accuforce, OSW wheels have 1000Htz refresh rate -->I don't know what Fanatec has up there sleeve but at this point No game that i know of has broken the 1000htz FFB/Physics Refresh rate mark yet---> I read some where that  AMS runs 500hz for the ffb/input refresh rate and 720hz for the physics  you can adjust the Physics settings also to 360 and 180 depending on what your wheel can handle ---> Im Not tooo sure that games will break the 1000Htz FFB/Physics refresh rate in the Near future because We will need  real beefy PC's to be able to handle that. 

    It could never hurt to have a wheel that can handle more refresh rate than the game can put out so you know your not missing any FFB detail because the wheel cant keep up.


  • Let's not give up the hope about a multi platform DD. Sometimes it takes just a little bit of time. And sometimes things come sooner than expected. ;)

    [-O< ^:)^ :-bd
  • Let's not give up the hope about a multi platform DD. Sometimes it takes just a little bit of time. And sometimes things come sooner than expected. ;)

    !!!!
  • If the DD could be made so that there is sufficient clearance between the motor and the wheel disconnect for the display to be lowered in that space resulting in the display as close to the user as possible.  Increased FOV.
  • If the DD could be made so that there is sufficient clearance between the motor and the wheel disconnect for the display to be lowered in that space resulting in the display as close to the user as possible.  Increased FOV.
    Aha you mean the monitor display. cool :) I thought that you were referring to the motec display. 
  • Why do not you make it PlayStation 4 compatible? That would offer.
  • edited July 2017
    If the DD could be made so that there is sufficient clearance between the motor and the wheel disconnect for the display to be lowered in that space resulting in the display as close to the user as possible.  Increased FOV.
    That would be nice to lower the display in between the wheel rim and the wheel base. Now I'm exactly having the monitor sitting nearly on top of the wheel base with 0.5cm clearance, and still think it is too high as it would not be perfect for the in game instrument cluster. would be nice to have that design so you see the actual gauges through the wheel rim like in real life. Sure going VR would be better but this gives option for many who are using monitors still.

    Or maybe simply designed with an option of adding a spacer there, so everyone can choose and set up to what they like respectively. 
  • edited July 2017
    Very happy to hear that current rims will stay compatible, this was my number one worry.  After I learned of rim compatibility,  now I know whose DD base I am getting :) 

    Not particularly DD related, but the only issue with Fanatec software I am facing is that it is not working very well if you re-plug Pedals/Base into different USB ports.  (devices sometime get different Joystick # and that messes the games up).  Also, system restart is required sometimes for correct initialization.  I know that part of the issue is how OS enumerates joisticks, but I still hope to see some improvement here.

    Otherwise, happy CSW 2.5/CSP3, CSS1.5 user here, and looking forward to your DD base.

    Thank you and best of luck with the effort.
  • time to buy endor shares?

    your company chart looks great.

    image
  • I think it's a good idea to put it between 500 and 1700 $ knowing that the competition greatly reduces its prices
  • time to buy endor shares?

    your company chart looks great.

    image
    Now that the best news since the confirmation of a Fanatec DD wheel base.
  • If I would win big money from Eurojackpot, I'll buy big share of whole company and then I would get all new products straight away!
  • I can only hope Fanatec keep the price competitive to the consumer/racer. 

    Fanatec have such a good opportunity to become the number one product line in the industry if they ensure a competitive price point they could wipe the floor with other makes

    Keep the Direct drive low and make the profit on the peripherals would make sensible business strategy.

    I cannot imagine the influx of orders for this, but I hope it goes well for Fanatec and wish them well with this exciting project on the horizon.

    A true fan of Fanatec 
  • Seriously like to know what wheel they will be launched with or do we have a choice? i.e. Bundle choices
  • I am sure there will be a bundle, if not at launch. Most definitely soon after
  • The current DD wheels are superior mostly because of its torque and speed. This actually makes a really big difference on how easy you can catch an oversteering car for example.

    The subtle forces will be improved as well but up to a point where it is actually no longer realistic as you have some slack or loss in the steering system of a real car as well.

    If you use a belt drive like on the CSW V2.5 you are already pretty close to DD but with a more powerful motor and a single drive V-belt system I am sure that you could reach better results than on a bad DD system with a notchy motor. 

    DD is great but it has to be done properly and it is not true that a belt system is by default inferior.

     
    This is a very good point by Thomas. I fully agree with it, and with a good fast powerful motor, a belt-drive wheel might even surpass DD wheels to some degree in the tactile department to inherent damping in the form of the belts. It will most likely come close to real-life feel with lesser work on filters than is needed in direct drive wheels due to these belts. I have at my disposal a V2 base which I will retrofit with such a do,union to test and proof the point or not. Will be a nice exercise though. Catch you guys soon, I hope to visit you more often. Beano
  • Your showing the wheel later this year. But as well as showing it will you have a launch date and pricing set at this point?

    I'm looking forward to the show and are ready to get my arse kicked!
  • edited July 2017
    Hi Thomas, I know we've discussed some of these during the expo, but was mostly related to the servos. After extensive exposure to all types of controller/servo combinations over the past 3 years, including SS2 Bodnar, and a big variety of OSW setups, here is my recommendation on filters and a few other areas: Peak-notch filter: This one is to counter oscillatory behaviour around center of the wheel, when driving cars like the DW12 in iRacing. Here you need to be able to enter center frequency and attenuation. Very useful for those titles with lower ffb update rates Damping, Friction and Inertia filters: Very important to have these 3 to allow adding mechanical characteristics to the wheel. I find especially Damping and Inertia very important/handy. Interpolation filter: To scale up the low ffb update rate in iRacing, and significantly smooththe driving experience, this is a must - if you can have an interpolation freq>1khz, will help a lot even with wheels with lower encoders Others: Adjustble Bump-stops each side at the end of your wheel rotation degrees. Need to be able to set strength and slope angle Encoders: I find, when used in conjunction with a very good interpolation filter, that encoders from 2,500PPR and up doing a great job, with the sweet spot at the 10,000PPR/40,000CPR level. A good quality encoder is a must. You can always provide update path from quadrature to SinCos and BiSS if your servo design allows for it. I am currently testing 40k CPR incremental, 3.67M CPR SinCos and 4M CPR BiSS (22-bit) on my OSW Simucube setup. I also own a Bodnar SS2 to directly compare with, which itself has a 2M CPR Smart Feedback Device. Servos: We talked about this at the Simexpo during 2016, and I like your decision to do a customised range of servos for your solution. Their are many very good suitable (but expensive and over-the-top) servos available off the shelf, but they come with some sacrifices - not necessarily in performance, but in performance-per-dollar. Doing your own, it would be very easy to have a series of servos with a low input voltage, perhaps 48-56VAC, but a high V/RPM range, in other words, it be wired that you can get 250-300RPM from a 48VAC input. Such a servo should also have a very good NM/A ratio, perhaps as high as 5:1, so that you will need around 5A AC only to get 25NM torque from it. This is where customer servos, if specced and developed properly, can have a significant advantage over standard offerings. An additional advantage then is a significant reduced physical size, allowing and all-in-one solution. During the last 3 years, the most bang-for-the-buck servos I have used must be the small and big Mige series, I am sure they will be very willing to work with companies such as yours. Despite being Chinese manufactured, they are good, robust, price-efficient and reliable. If I had to design your controller, it will sport an AC drive output stage, significantly easier to developed than the DC alternative. It will have an onboard PSU, and output stage between 5-8A AC RMS. Above just some of my thoughts, hopefully it comes in handy. Talk soon again! Cheers, Beano
  • edited July 2017
    http://www.simracingexpo.de/simracingexpo_en.html

    Fanatec will be showing there new DD at
  • edited August 2017


  • 4000 dollars well if its in this price range I'll be staying with my belt!
  • The market for wheel bases in general is finite. There is a larger market for a $150 wheelbase than there is for a $500 wheelbase and so on.  When you get to $4,000 USD the market is SUPER finite. Fanatec did not build their consumer brand and a worldwide distribution network to sell a handful of DD units to professionals and the well-to-do (at least I don't think so). If I had to guess, the Fanatec DD product will be priced to compete with the Simxperience Accuforce that starts out at $900 for the base only.  Happily, we don't have long to wait if the September reveal is still in the cards.
  • Daid Marx said:
    The market for wheel bases in general is finite. There is a larger market for a $150 wheelbase than there is for a $500 wheelbase and so on.  When you get to $4,000 USD the market is SUPER finite. Fanatec did not build their consumer brand and a worldwide distribution network to sell a handful of DD units to professionals and the well-to-do (at least I don't think so). If I had to guess, the Fanatec DD product will be priced to compete with the Simxperience Accuforce that starts out at $900 for the base only.  Happily, we don't have long to wait if the September reveal is still in the cards.
    I hope so!

  • I wonder if it is still planned to show the DD wheel at the Simracing Expo mid september. Maybe behind closed doors, but i really hope to see some footage of it.
  • edited September 2017
    we need a spacer to put steering wheel base behind the monitor

  • edited September 2017
    It would be nice if we could have the option to use a real life steering wheel, from the local tuner, without all those buttons & gizmo on the steering wheel, something clean like a 36 - 38 cm of old 1989 porsche 911 in size, w201, e30, cadilac etc, and be able to easly switch to a smaller modern racing wheels which look like airplane board.
  • edited September 2017
    Image result for sim racing expo 2017            
  • I am glad i waited for Fanatec DD...Smoothing with less notchy ffb, rim backwards compatibility, plug & play, competitive pricing, i only need the base etc etc. I am almost sold... If the base tier DD can hit that magic sweet spot under Accuforce & lowest osw costs i am in...Its a know brainer. Pluss we most likely will see loyalty price insensitives? Life is good.
  • Really looking forward to hear about the Fanatec DD wheel. Hopefully we'll found out in 6 days.
  • We can see the DD wheels at the Sim racing Expo as expected ?
  • I hope so and I hope they give us the price
  • I
    Basically great news. But Thomas you wrote: 'The first generation will not be compatible to PS4.' Again Sony who is making this restrictions? So the PS4 community has to wait again. Please just tell me that there will be a PS4 DD wheel later in the future as well.
    Thomas already stated that Sony found the V2(.5) is too expensive. That's why we got a CSL E base in stead. So they need to be more convinced of a product to be sold to their standards.
    that's is not true  In a recent conversation with GTPlanet regarding the wheel, Kazunori sheds light on what was on everyone’s minds after first seeing the images of the wheel emanating from The Copper Box Arena in London. Namely, is it or is it not a direct drive wheel?  Kazunori states this wheel will be ‘Direct Drive’, which means the wheel is directly attached to the steering shaft itself! Thrustmaster is doing away with the usual belts and gears and replacing them with a direct drive motor which will be employed by this new wheelbase.

    https://www.gtplanet.net/thrustmasters-new-gt-sport-wheel-to-include-direct-drive-motor/
    Yes it IS true. Ploug through the PS4 compatibility topic on this blog and you'll find Thomas' comment somewhere.
    The TM T GT price is currently set at 799€, so why would Sony approve TM high price but not Fanatecs V2-2,5?
  • In order of upcoming SimRacingExpo event at Nürburgring, and hoping to see and maybe even feel the DD... Who's up for a meeting. I'll be there with 2 or 3 other good friends, and I'd like to see who's gonna be there too?
  • Any price and availiabilty updates ???????????????????????
  • Hi Don't seem to be able to get any info on your Direct drive wheel that you showed today at the Expo. My questions are, release date, price, and is there a preorder list I can go on. Thanks I wish success with this new exciting project. Lee
  • Hi Don't seem to be able to get any info on your Direct drive wheel that you showed today at the Expo. My questions are, release date, price, and is there a preorder list I can go on. Thanks I wish success with this new exciting project. Lee
    You're not the only one who wants to know the answers. But like always, You won't hear or read anything About that until it's on the site.
  • edited September 2017
    I hope they will work on playstation 4 and xbox one. Will there be any beta testing or not for direct drive ?
Sign In or Register to comment.