Pricing and auction system of Podium DD1 explained

edited July 2018 in Blog
After reading some comments on the live stream we thought it was a good idea to make this video in order to explain some points in more depth.

This video summarises the unique benefits of the Podium DD Wheel Bases, announces pricing and explains the auction system. I will even show a new steering wheel which is in development.



We also decided to publish these torque graphs so you can see how our outrunner servo motors behave over time. Even the most expensive DD motors de-rate when they heat up as it is a physical law that heat increases resistance and therefore reduces power. But please consider that it is not typical in simracing that the motor is operated in full stall for 5 minutes or more.
In our realistic life test scenarios we reach only 60°C motor temperature if operated with 100% force feedback. But not everybody really wants to drive at 100% ;)

image
«13

Comments

  • Thanks for clarification, Thomas. And all the updates are great to hear.

    BTW ..... great looking steering wheel. Finally some magnetic shifters.
  • Thanks for the clarification and the more details. Can't wait to get a hand on a DD2.
    You know how to get people excited :-)
  • Wow! Absolutely amazing Thomas.
    $999 for DD1 with DD2 motor in it up to 20Nm Peak for pre-orders. Fantastic!
    Auctions cannot go over $950. Unbelievable.
    Thanks a bunch man.
  • It's sometimes essential for a company to listen to its clientele and I applaud you for doing that. My concerns only related to the auction system, so it's good to see that has been addressed. The €999 price for the DD1 appropriately fits into the market and should help direct drive wheels become more mass market. I have already expressed my interest in attending the community event. As an owner of a Bonder wheel I would be interested in drawing comparisons with the DD1/DD2 and providing feedback. The way I see it, more DD wheels on the market can only be a good thing for the sim racing community as a whole. 
  • Well, last Fridays presentation left me puzzled as what you were up to with your customers. This one probably is a lot more than everyone would have expected. Now I like the idea behind DD1 auction, I'll try my luck for sure. As for DD1 preorder, give future customers a chance to add waranty time for a reasonable price. 150€ for an additional year of warranty is what you get charged for a 40.000€ car here in Germany. Even for a diesel ;-) Anyway, keep up the spirit and the good work. Matthias
  • Great info and video, all we need is the pre order date and price for the PS4 Podium racing wheel since by next week both DD bases can be pre order.
  • Thanks for this infos.
    Sounds great, This DD's need a good Simrig. Mine is probably not for 20Nm or more.
    I hope the new steering wheels work also  with the CSW 2.5.too.

  • Almost speechless ! Very very impressed. DD1 motor has bin upgraded to the DD2 motor at AND i get this tech at the sweet spot price just under 1000usd   ...Thomas im' not gay but you had me at hello with this news! Cheers!
  • edited July 2018
    Friday stream I disliked very much. This news here sounds great. Will preorder DD1 für 1000 bucks. This seems the correct prize for the market.
  • Hi Thomas , when does Podium Racing Wheel PS4 will announce the price and pre-order date ? i want it so badly ...
  • edited July 2018
    Great video! Me too ^^ - I can’t wait to order a PS4 Podium DD1/wheel combo. Better start building a wheel rack to hang all those new podium rims too! Will there be a compatability mode to play older games on the podium series?
  • Hi Thomas what are the mounting options and will the DSD designed button boxses for the csw wheel work with the Podium

    thanks 
  • Thank you very much for the update and also all of the information. So much better than the original. I almost ordered another brand of wheel, now I will stick with Fanatec and will be able to use all of the goodies I already have with a new DD wheel base. Take my money, please!!

  • As the video you mentioned, DD1 and PRW will install DD2 motor on the “first batch” , is it mean it only offer for a period ? And it will back to smaller motor in the future?
  • Hi , how about an upgrade option for those of us that bought the 2.5 within the last month. Just thought I'd try. Haha
  • thats a great deal on the direct drive 1 with motor upgrade will it have same warranty upgrade for pre order as the dd2?
  • Thank you Thomas. That was a much better, clearer and more professionally presented description of your new Podium offerings. While it is nice to hear the news verbally straight from the boss, considerable value is added by a side by side written presentation of what was described in this new video. I look forward to the supporting printed material. I also thought that the addition of a familiar reviewer to your first presentation was an approach that offered value and should be considered for future communications. Great marketing communications is equally as valuable as product quality and performance in building brand value. Cheers
  • First of all. Really great news in your new video Thomas !!

    Just one thing I would like to clarifiy with preorder on the DD1. You mention that it will include the DD2 motor for the first batch of preorders.

    I did not quiete clear understand. Will this DD2 motor than be limited somehow to the figures of 20nm peak torque via the software/electronics of the DD1 or will it produce the normal peak torque (25nm) of the "normal" DD2 motor ?
  • edited July 2018
    First of all. Really great news in your new video Thomas !!

    Just one thing I would like to clarifiy with preorder on the DD1. You mention that it will include the DD2 motor for the first batch of preorders.

    I did not quiete clear understand. Will this DD2 motor than be limited somehow to the figures of 20nm peak torque via the software/electronics of the DD1 or will it produce the normal peak torque (25nm) of the "normal" DD2 motor ?
    Same exact motor of DD2 that now is 25Nm peak instead of 24Nm but on DD1 the maximum peak torque is limited by internal electronics to 20Nm maximum peak torque.

    The DD1 "in the first batch" is the clear winner... considering that a downgraded motor can have more stable behaviours and in theory can't reach higher temperature.

    DD1 is the best choice for price/performance without any doubt.
  • hi Thomas, Will the stronger DD2 engine be installed in the first shipments of the DD1-PS4 Base? Thanks in advance
  • edited July 2018
    thank you Thomas!! Great news, great video, great price for DD1 and a great new steering wheel!
    R.I.P. Simucube :)
  • hi Thomas, Will the stronger DD2 engine be installed in the first shipments of the DD1-PS4 Base? Thanks in advance
    Yes the DD2 motor will also be installed in the PS4 wheel base. He said that in the video (at time stamp 5:30)
  • Only thing to do now is wait for the bundle 
  • Dear Thomas, great to hear the price of the DD1 and the total package you get with the DD2, so if I understand it good there will be a 3 podium DD base that will be compatibel with ps4 and not the one's that are already for pre-order? Kindest regards Dennis.
  • Dear Thomas, great to hear the price of the DD1 and the total package you get with the DD2, so if I understand it good there will be a 3 podium DD base that will be compatibel with ps4 and not the one's that are already for pre-order? Kindest regards Dennis.
    No it's just the one, DD1 and DD2 are both PC/xb1 only.  

    I think he was calling it the Podium Steering Wheel system that will be a formula style rim + ps4 compatible base.
  • how do i set the DD1 on a GT omega pro cockpit ? is there a support provided with the base like for the CSW series or optional that must be purchased separately ?
  • Great news all around Thomas!

    I'm curious about the outrunner motor you mention. If you say yours is an outrunner, are the current DD wheels on the market using inrunner servo motors?

    I am not a motor/electronics expert at all, but I'm curious about the acceleration aspects of your motor.The torque characteristics of an outrunner are clearly superior to an inrunner, but how does the rotational inertia compare? Wouldn't the increased diameter of the rotating component make the inertia higher thus leading to greater resistance to quick and accurate acceleration (and deceleration)? I know you must have selected the best characteristics of your motor and I will appreciate if you can help understand this acceleration question :)

    I hope your DD1 and DD2 wheels are a success, both in terms of quality and bulletproof longterm reliability. I will definitely get the DD2 once these are proven :)

    In closing, thank you for innovating further and I am really happy to see you take on the sincere advice of the community.
  • I am not a motor/electronics expert at all, but I'm curious about the acceleration aspects of your motor.The torque characteristics of an outrunner are clearly superior to an inrunner, but how does the
    rotational inertia compare? Wouldn't the increased diameter of the rotating component make the inertia higher thus leading to greater resistance to quick and accurate acceleration (and deceleration)? I know you must have selected the best characteristics of your motor and I will appreciate if you can help understand this acceleration question :)

    Thomas showed a graph during the livestream that showed the Podium Acceleration compared with other direct drive wheels on the market. The "Hybrid Stepper" is likely the Accuforce and the "26Nm Servo" is likely the Bodnar.


    image
  • edited July 2018
    Thanks Gordon for that graph. Since the livestream is no longer up I could not refer back to it when asking my question. If the measurements by Fanatic are accurate then the Podium wheels should be special.

    I also had a look at the Fanatec Podium Direct Drive Features Revealed video:

    and the blowup of the motor (at the 19 second mark) seems to indicate the rotor is actually not that thick, so even though it is on the outside its mass should be low leading to low rotational inertia.

    Can't wait for the reviews on these things! And I hope that Fanatec have solved the problems that seem to plague all their products so far in terms of reliability and wear rate of the parts. I REALLY hope there is nothing plastic inside, everything's high-quality metal with ball bearings used wherever necessary.
  • Since Amazon is being used for the auction, and you can login into the fanatec websites using amazon, i think, what i would interested in is if we can purchase through amazon for countries fanatec does not deliver to?
  • edited July 2018
    Thanks Gordon for that graph. Since the livestream is no longer up I could not refer back to it when asking my question. If the measurements by Fanatic are accurate then the Podium wheels should be special.

    I also had a look at the Fanatec Podium Direct Drive Features Revealed video:

    and the blowup of the motor (at the 19 second mark) seems to indicate the rotor is actually not that thick, so even though it is on the outside its mass should be low leading to low rotational inertia.

    Can't wait for the reviews on these things! And I hope that Fanatec have solved the problems that seem to plague all their products so far in terms of reliability and wear rate of the parts. I REALLY hope there is nothing plastic inside, everything's high-quality metal with ball bearings used wherever necessary.
    Probably fanatec uses a rotary/gear conversion ratio.. This type of motor is utilized in RC models like airplanes etc... you can use inrunner but less torque and more base speed or use out-runner with extreme high torque and extreme high acceleration from zero but with less total peak speed ... but.. you can use a ratio-converter and you have the benefit of an inrunner mixed to the benefit of an outrunner.

    i think that a torque corrector is also used.

    The only thing that anyone can complain about this base is the cooling system that can be Liquid or Air "pull or push" based...
    I hope in a Podium DD-X with liquid cooling and for sure a liquid cooled solution can maintain 25Nm peak power for almost 3 minutes in stall.

    But a scenarios where is necessary to stay at 25Nm for more than 3/5 seconds is improbable even if you use a Truck Simulator.
  • @Danilo Alfio Longhitano: I don't think Fanatec are using any gearing or torque convertor (I believe that is what you meant by "torque corrector"). Doing so would immediately and completely change the wheel base from being a "direct drive" wheel to a gear driven one. Anyway the motor parts diagram in the video doesn't show any such gearing and I am sure it is a full direct-drive wheel.

    Now we just need the reviews :)
  • edited July 2018
    @Danilo Alfio Longhitano: I don't think Fanatec are using any gearing or torque convertor (I believe that is what you meant by "torque corrector"). Doing so would immediately and completely change the wheel base from being a "direct drive" wheel to a gear driven one. Anyway the motor parts diagram in the video doesn't show any such gearing and I am sure it is a full direct-drive wheel.

    Now we just need the reviews :)
    My word are "only" supposition... i'm NOT a motor engineer in anyway.

    For what i know ( but , again ... i'm not a motor engineer ) a "torque corrector" is a device that ( expand ) the point where maximum torque will be at max peak x speed/acceleration ratio... and spread it in a more "wide and linear" manner.

    With a torque corrector you can decide "where" the full torque power have to start... mid, low, high.. based on acceleration x rpm.
    this is how torque corrector works in trasmissions and other device... ( if i'm not wrong )

    In my understandings "direct drive" means that the Wheel is attached directly on the MOTOR shaft but "how this motor achieve and deliver" their power is a completely different story. No one have seen "the internals" of the motor. A exploded diagram on a marketing video count nothing about how this motor is developer. The exploded diagram have to be the simplest possible to be understandeable for posible interested clients that are not engineers.


    In my opinion people have to Don't worry about the quality and torque of this base. It's clear that Thomas want to release a product that is capable of go over or exceed the expectations. Try it and if this wheel base is not what you want return it but, i think that this products can easly exceed the expectations.

    Sometime is not a good idea known everything about how a product is made... because feels boring at some point...
    the best for me is when i open the BOX... and with ALL my ignorance i have to trust only in my hands and feelings. "the same when you open a car door and start an engine"... you don't know nothing about HOW the exaust are attached to the collector .. or what are the first cilider to use fuel...
    it's simply "funny".
  • edited July 2018
  • edited July 2018
    When the other Podium steering wheels will be announced? If I will make a DD pre-order I would like to make it all at once with some Podium wheels instead of ClubSport wheels.
    I hope they will be all announced before the DD availability date.
  • edited July 2018
    so i wonder when preorders go up for ps4 version? because you can just put the uni hub on the ps4 version of the dd1 and you get support for xbox. so support for all 3 with the ps4 version of the dd1 vs just xbox and pc with dd1

  • Patiently waiting for pre-orders for Podium Racing Wheel to open up! :) 
  • Hello, The V2.5 base comes with a optional mounting adapter

    "20° mounting adapter incl. screws (premounted)"

    Will the DD1 have something similar?, or maybe we can use the same adapter

    I´m much more confortable driving with the 20º angle

    Thanks
  • I can see a great improvement in this press release over the previous one, I am missing in it few technical details, that were in facebook stream plus few other that partially found on the website. As I am pointing at a complete bundle not available yet podium racing wheel is the option for me. It will be Playstation compatible but in a video, there was no information about PC compatibility - it sounds like PS4 only. If it is PC compatible what will happen when I or one of my children plug it to XBOX? Next, I have a few questions about the torque limiter key. Information about it disappeared from a press release. Everyone that has kids knew about this problem - in case of lost will it be available to buy separately? Is there any other way to overcome a missing key problem, like setting a torque limit at podium software? I watched Shaun's Cole review of OSW wheel where he showed that 20% of torque (in 30Nm motor means 6Nm) is a reasonable top limit of use - that's for adults. Parent way of view is different - is the key limiter can be set to a different value? Can it be programmed in software to a value of about 1-1.5 Nm? If there will be available spare keys will they can be programmed to separate values, i.e. like in a Ford car - one for me and one for my sons? How robust are previous steering rigs when used with DD motors? Over the internet, I found many pictures of damaged McLaren GT3 wheels (broken pins). What will happen to them when connected to DD wheel? Will you plan to make a strengthed revision of McLaren GT3 rim or any other bulletproof GT3 like steering wheel (I understand that licencing has limitations)?

    P.S. You should make an accessory, an expansion cable that allows plugging a torque limiter key from the front. Nice if it will be a functional ignition lock. :)

    P.P.S. Maybe you should do an additional video where you explain more technical details about DD wheels, but please let someone else do the production cut of material. In the middle of the press release camera is switched like a crazy every 1-2 seconds, it was very hard to focus on details.
  • edited July 2018
    First of all. Really great news in your new video Thomas !!

    Just one thing I would like to clarifiy with preorder on the DD1. You mention that it will include the DD2 motor for the first batch of preorders.

    I did not quiete clear understand. Will this DD2 motor than be limited somehow to the figures of 20nm peak torque via the software/electronics of the DD1 or will it produce the normal peak torque (25nm) of the "normal" DD2 motor ?
    Same exact motor of DD2 that now is 25Nm peak instead of 24Nm but on DD1 the maximum peak torque is limited by internal electronics to 20Nm maximum peak torque.

    The DD1 "in the first batch" is the clear winner... considering that a downgraded motor can have more stable behaviours and in theory can't reach higher temperature.

    DD1 is the best choice for price/performance without any doubt.
    Thomas said "in the first batch"?   I hope to get some clarity on this question. I also concur! DD1 is a great choice! but i wonder what exactly Mr Jackermeier ment by that!?  I am seriously interested in purchasing the DD1.
  • It looks like all pre-orders will get the better motor. At least everything until the auctions are finished.
  • Has nothing to do with the post but, I've been trying to get ahold of costumer service regarding my order where I am being charged incorrectly. I emailed I called and left several messages nobody will get back to me. I bought a shifter, hand brake and two USB dongles. Paid for 2 day shipping but am getting three day shipping instead. That's fine charge me 3 day not 2. This is fraud I want to talk to somebody to straighten this out but can't. Please do not make me have to claim fraud to my credit card. Yo
  • I've been trying to get ahold of costumer service regarding my order where I am being charged incorrectly. I emailed I called and left several messages nobody will get back to me. I bought a shifter, hand brake and two USB dongles. Paid for 2 day shipping but am getting three day shipping instead. That's fine charge me 3 day not 2. This is fraud I want to talk to somebody to straighten this out but can't. Please do not make me have to claim fraud to my credit card. Yo
    "At Fanatec.com, we strive to ship your order within 48 hours after receipt of payment. However, because of inventory, shipping, and matters outside of our control, our statements as to usual shipping times are not guarantees or promises that a product will ship on a specific day."

  • It looks like all pre-orders will get the better motor. At least everything until the auctions are finished.
    Hi Thomas, when do the auctions finish? I really want to pre-order and buy the Podium Racing Wheel, even now if that was possible.
    But I don't want to miss on the better motor, should i give up on the Podium Racing Wheel and pre-order DD1 instead?

    Podium Racing Wheel

    Podium Racing Wheel

    Podium Racing Wheel

  • Thomas please make sure Podium Racing Wheel will equip better motor on the first patch , I must order it at once when it available
  • edited July 2018
    It looks like all pre-orders will get the better motor. At least everything until the auctions are finished.

    Vielen dank Herr Jackermeier for the klarung! Prost! Aus Kanada. Cheers mate!
  • edited July 2018

    It looks like all pre-orders will get the better motor. At least everything until the auctions are finished.
    Hi Mr. Thomas :).

    i have one question for the event of 25th august. The event is open to public ?.

    Can't wait!!
    http://drive.google.com/file/d/1cdNw3dUaZwAlXOZDWzC9_jSj8w3GSmqF/view
  • It looks like all pre-orders will get the better motor. At least everything until the auctions are finished.
    Thomas,

    Does that also apply to the PS4 wheel base?

    Thank you.

  • It looks like all pre-orders will get the better motor. At least everything until the auctions are finished.
    Hi Mr. Thomas :).

    i have one question for the event of 25th august. The event is open to public ?.

    Can't wait!!
    http://drive.google.com/file/d/1cdNw3dUaZwAlXOZDWzC9_jSj8w3GSmqF/view
    Hi Danilo,

    Our community event is by invitation. Invites are in progress!
Sign In or Register to comment.