After having slept, and thinking about it again now, with all respect I still think the current system can't be described as a real auction (in the "strict" definition, if we could define one).
My strict definition of an auction would be that the only gamble should be whether or not the bidder is going to be out-bidded by someone else. Meaning all other aspects should remain strictly under bidder's control, and I'm specifaclly thinking about controlling the amount the bidder want to bid.
It does not seem the current system allows that, and this is due to the fact bids are instant.
Let take a concrete example:
Let say the initial rush of current auction (I mean current item) has passed, meaning we went rapidly from $1 starting bid to say $930. So current bid is now $930 and let say we know 10 people are going to continue bidding until auction is won by someone. Let say out of those 10 bidders, 5 want to bid a max of $940, 3 want to bid a max of $950, and the remaining 2 will bid up to $960. Will they be able to do what they decided ? I think no. With current bid being $930, at least 5 people are going to bid, and possibly more as those who are prepared to bid more may still try their luck at the lower bid price. Even with that low bidders count, it is very likely 2 or more persons will bid at the same time (and patiently waiting for the 30s mark before placing their bid won't change anything to that). What will be the registered result of that ? Only 1 bidder will manage to register the $940 bid he wanted to place, and all other will register higher bid amounts despite they did their best to click at $930 to place a $940 bid.
Strictly, this can much more be described as a gamble than as an auction.
Yes, if the winner is getting a lower price than retail you can argue he still got a rebate and then call the "auction" a success, but in my opinion he still haven't won a real auction but more a gamble.
The fact the system will register several successive bids from a bunch of people clicking almost at the same time (thus willing to bid the same amount) will artificialy increase the winning bid. Without this flaw I would expect winning bids could have ended slightly lower than what we have seen (a few $10 less maybe ?).
And this is even without speaking about people reporting here they have had several successive bids registered from a single click, which raise several comments: - what bid amount will be retained in such case, lowest or highest ? - having several successive bids registered from a single click is again restricting the "auction game" that should normally happen when people can just place single bids of the exact amount they decided. This is again artificially raising the winning bid. - how do you differenciate honnest people who had several bids registered from 1 click from a cheater who would simulate this on purpose ? (to prevent being out-bidded and then claim to be the winner and have his lowest bid retained as winning bid by claiming he just made a single click)
Without going into a full algorithm rework (as the one I suggested in my earlier post, and I know even this suggested alternative algorithm isn't flawless as I described it, and should still be refined) it seems obvious current system could still be improved (maybe enough to be able to call it a real auction ?).
I won't claim to know exactly how it should be changed to fix the current issues reported and discussed above, but I can suggest ideas/paths to examine:
- what about forcing the bidding to slow down past a given amount ? For example past $900 you could have the system only accepting a single bid every 5sec ?
- what about accepting multiple bids for a same amount ? That would mean istead of having instant bid registration bids would be registered over a given set period of time. For example all bids within the same second would not be registered as successive increasing bids but as several single bids of the same amount. And then I would expect the system to display (on client browsers) how many bidders are present in the current bid. Also in such case a winning bid should be able to consist in several winning bidders (like we have 3 registered bids at $960 and then 60s pass without any outbid, then this auction will have 3 winners at $960).
- what about automated bidding based on a max bid set by the user ? This is how ebay does it and seems the best way to work around many if not most of the flaws your current system has. This could still be combined with timers to make the auction look "more alive" as with current system. Imagine all bidders set their max bid (and can still change it at any time) and every 3sec the server raise the current bid about $10 and displays on clients browser how many bidders are still present at any given bidding step (based on their set max bid). And then you can still dynamically play with this timer duration, like for example increasing the timer when getting past given set amounts for current bid. This means the auctions would slow down the closer it gets from average winning bid amount, and the "auction game" for the bidders will be to adjust their max bid to try to be the winner (or part of the winners if multiple bids of the same amount were accepted).
To sum up my "complaints" (or remarks) about the current system, I think it looks like still being too much a gamble to be able to call it real auction, I think bidders don't seem to have full control over the amount they want to bid (and no good practice from the bidder would be able to solve that), and I estimate the (remaining) system flaws are very likely to artificially raise the winning bid.
Highest you'll pay is $1000... Auction needs a cut-off at that price
There is no cut off, the units above MSRP are simply invalid.
Which is why units above the invalid price should have been cut-off. You ask -why bid on a unit that is so much higher than retail- but I wonder why you let the bid go so high in the first place. If $1,001 is the highest winnable bid, then why let the auction get to $2k, $3k and $4k? Obviously no one is going to pay above retail when they can simply pre-order one right now.
Seemed like the lowest price (on average) was $941. I participated in almost every one of the 109 auctions, and that was always more than I could afford. It's pretty disappointing. I'll have to wait for a few years until people start selling them used, or wait until Fanatec has a big sale. Until then, I'll be using the Logitech wheel I hate. Wat jammer / Wat lastig / Que lastima.
I suggest that you start with a CSL Elite Wheel Base as this is already a huge upgrade to what you have
I won one of these DD1 wheels. The last 4 bids in order showed that I bid, even though I didn't click it more than once somehow it registered more. It went from $951 to 981 and I got an email that I won at $981.
How does that work? Shouldn't I win the lowest of the 4 bids it supposedly registered that I made?
Same Experience here. My final auction price was 991, but I definitely bid below that price. There's literally no transparency to how the bidding worked. I clicked bid; the button locked and said I won. Plus all the spam email I got for the next couple of hours "sorting it out". I run a sim racing channel. I was really excited to get one of these wheels to review, but after this auction experience and really poorly designed marketing stunt; going to stick with Thrustmaster.
“All pre-ordered or auctioned DD1 as well as the Podium Racing Wheel PS4 will get the DD2 motor“
Do I get it right? Does the base come with the wheel that is not released yet?
Highest you'll pay is $1000... Auction needs a cut-off at that price
There is no cut off, the units above MSRP are simply invalid.
Which is why units above the invalid price should have been cut-off. You ask -why bid on a unit that is so much higher than retail- but I wonder why you let the bid go so high in the first place. If $1,001 is the highest winnable bid, then why let the auction get to $2k, $3k and $4k? Obviously no one is going to pay above retail when they can simply pre-order one right now.
There were technical reasons why it was not possible to cut off the auctions at MSRP. There is no difference in functionality, as any unit above MSRP offers no benefit to the 'winner'. People bidding ludicrously high numbers are not only wasting their time, but are running the risk of being restricted from bidding on the next units (as you can only win one unit).
I won one of these DD1 wheels. The last 4 bids in order showed that I bid, even though I didn't click it more than once somehow it registered more. It went from $951 to 981 and I got an email that I won at $981.
How does that work? Shouldn't I win the lowest of the 4 bids it supposedly registered that I made?
Same Experience here. My final auction price was 991, but I definitely bid below that price. There's literally no transparency to how the bidding worked. I clicked bid; the button locked and said I won. Plus all the spam email I got for the next couple of hours "sorting it out". I run a sim racing channel. I was really excited to get one of these wheels to review, but after this auction experience and really poorly designed marketing stunt; going to stick with Thrustmaster.
I'm sorry you feel that way Christopher. Due to the unnecessarily rapid bidding combined with connection latency, there was bound to be occasions where it appeared that you are bidding at a lower value but it resulted in a higher value by the time each click had been registered.
“All pre-ordered or auctioned DD1 as well as the Podium Racing Wheel PS4 will get the DD2 motor“
Do I get it right? Does the base come with the wheel that is not released yet?
I think you misunderstand Victor. There are three Podium direct drive systems: Podium Wheel Base DD1, Podium Wheel Base DD2, and Podium Racing Wheel for PS4. Only the Podium Racing Wheel for PS4 is a package that includes a steering wheel. The sentence you are quoting is stating that all three direct drive systems are using the 'DD2 spec' motor. In the case of the Podium Wheel Base DD1 and the Podium Racing Wheel for PS4, this motor is running at a lower performance. Only the Podium Wheel Base DD2 runs the full performance of the DD2 motor.
Will try bidding today in the EU auctions. To be honest I don't hold up much hope.
Think a better idea would be to have a raffle/draw(no payment for ticket) type sale with the allotted number of units set with a preset discounted price. Say 2 unit at £600 - 2@£625 - 2 @ £650 etc etc up to presale price and the number of units on offer.
Then register your interest and get a confirmation email ticket. Then have Thomas do a livestream draw of winning numbers with the discounted item.
This way even if the auctions are overloaded or us with slow internet connections are not discriminated against and get an equal chance of winning.
I think the problem of rapid bidding (crazy clicking) lies in results of Australian auctions, where few lots were sold for €1 and €200. Everybody want to win such discount %) Or maybe some customers want to ruin auction because they don't like it.
Theyre not trolling - theyre bidding when its low, and that system works with a delay, counts all bids in a queue, and just adds theirs as the next one. few hundred people bidding and this is a result. I honestly dont understand HOW could this work in theory, if theres 45 units, at least few times more bidders, and they will obiously bid up to 970, since its always cheaper... Dont know who came up with the idea, but the logic behind it is flawed - it cant work if everyone can bid multiple times. If all could bid just once [one time in 45 auctions, not one time per auction], it might work, but not like this.
Theyre manually closing the auctions at around 970, but theres a delay with their clicking, so these close over 1k... So funny Just watching this, not even bidding.
Theyre manually closing the auctions at around 970, but theres a delay with their clicking, so these close over 1k... So funny Just watching this, not even bidding.
nevertheless 30eur discount is better then nothing. I hope they are valid for it's bidders.
You're joking, right...? ;] €30 discount on a €1000 product that you produce and sell through your own channel is almost exactly "nothing" [3%]. And almost nobody got it.
Comments
After having slept, and thinking about it again now, with all respect I still think the current system can't be described as a real auction (in the "strict" definition, if we could define one).
My strict definition of an auction would be that the only gamble should be whether or not the bidder is going to be out-bidded by someone else. Meaning all other aspects should remain strictly under bidder's control, and I'm specifaclly thinking about controlling the amount the bidder want to bid.
It does not seem the current system allows that, and this is due to the fact bids are instant.
Let take a concrete example:
Let say the initial rush of current auction (I mean current item) has passed, meaning we went rapidly from $1 starting bid to say $930.
So current bid is now $930 and let say we know 10 people are going to continue bidding until auction is won by someone.
Let say out of those 10 bidders, 5 want to bid a max of $940, 3 want to bid a max of $950, and the remaining 2 will bid up to $960.
Will they be able to do what they decided ? I think no.
With current bid being $930, at least 5 people are going to bid, and possibly more as those who are prepared to bid more may still try their luck at the lower bid price.
Even with that low bidders count, it is very likely 2 or more persons will bid at the same time (and patiently waiting for the 30s mark before placing their bid won't change anything to that).
What will be the registered result of that ? Only 1 bidder will manage to register the $940 bid he wanted to place, and all other will register higher bid amounts despite they did their best to click at $930 to place a $940 bid.
Strictly, this can much more be described as a gamble than as an auction.
Yes, if the winner is getting a lower price than retail you can argue he still got a rebate and then call the "auction" a success, but in my opinion he still haven't won a real auction but more a gamble.
The fact the system will register several successive bids from a bunch of people clicking almost at the same time (thus willing to bid the same amount) will artificialy increase the winning bid. Without this flaw I would expect winning bids could have ended slightly lower than what we have seen (a few $10 less maybe ?).
And this is even without speaking about people reporting here they have had several successive bids registered from a single click, which raise several comments:
- what bid amount will be retained in such case, lowest or highest ?
- having several successive bids registered from a single click is again restricting the "auction game" that should normally happen when people can just place single bids of the exact amount they decided. This is again artificially raising the winning bid.
- how do you differenciate honnest people who had several bids registered from 1 click from a cheater who would simulate this on purpose ? (to prevent being out-bidded and then claim to be the winner and have his lowest bid retained as winning bid by claiming he just made a single click)
Without going into a full algorithm rework (as the one I suggested in my earlier post, and I know even this suggested alternative algorithm isn't flawless as I described it, and should still be refined) it seems obvious current system could still be improved (maybe enough to be able to call it a real auction ?).
I won't claim to know exactly how it should be changed to fix the current issues reported and discussed above, but I can suggest ideas/paths to examine:
- what about forcing the bidding to slow down past a given amount ? For example past $900 you could have the system only accepting a single bid every 5sec ?
- what about accepting multiple bids for a same amount ? That would mean istead of having instant bid registration bids would be registered over a given set period of time. For example all bids within the same second would not be registered as successive increasing bids but as several single bids of the same amount. And then I would expect the system to display (on client browsers) how many bidders are present in the current bid. Also in such case a winning bid should be able to consist in several winning bidders (like we have 3 registered bids at $960 and then 60s pass without any outbid, then this auction will have 3 winners at $960).
- what about automated bidding based on a max bid set by the user ? This is how ebay does it and seems the best way to work around many if not most of the flaws your current system has. This could still be combined with timers to make the auction look "more alive" as with current system. Imagine all bidders set their max bid (and can still change it at any time) and every 3sec the server raise the current bid about $10 and displays on clients browser how many bidders are still present at any given bidding step (based on their set max bid). And then you can still dynamically play with this timer duration, like for example increasing the timer when getting past given set amounts for current bid. This means the auctions would slow down the closer it gets from average winning bid amount, and the "auction game" for the bidders will be to adjust their max bid to try to be the winner (or part of the winners if multiple bids of the same amount were accepted).
To sum up my "complaints" (or remarks) about the current system, I think it looks like still being too much a gamble to be able to call it real auction, I think bidders don't seem to have full control over the amount they want to bid (and no good practice from the bidder would be able to solve that), and I estimate the (remaining) system flaws are very likely to artificially raise the winning bid.
I think you misunderstand Victor. There are three Podium direct drive systems: Podium Wheel Base DD1, Podium Wheel Base DD2, and Podium Racing Wheel for PS4. Only the Podium Racing Wheel for PS4 is a package that includes a steering wheel. The sentence you are quoting is stating that all three direct drive systems are using the 'DD2 spec' motor. In the case of the Podium Wheel Base DD1 and the Podium Racing Wheel for PS4, this motor is running at a lower performance. Only the Podium Wheel Base DD2 runs the full performance of the DD2 motor.
I honestly dont understand HOW could this work in theory, if theres 45 units, at least few times more bidders, and they will obiously bid up to 970, since its always cheaper...
Dont know who came up with the idea, but the logic behind it is flawed - it cant work if everyone can bid multiple times.
If all could bid just once [one time in 45 auctions, not one time per auction], it might work, but not like this.
You´re kidding me right? xDDD</>
€30 discount on a €1000 product that you produce and sell through your own channel is almost exactly "nothing" [3%]. And almost nobody got it.